Questions to Ministers

1. KEVIN HAGUE to the Prime Minister: Does he stand by the answers given on his behalf to all my questions in the House on Thursday, 22 March?



Hon GERRY BROWNLEE (Acting Prime Minister): Yes.
Kevin Hague: Given his answers that no further independent inquiry was needed into matters to do with ACC and that the Prime Minister had conducted his own investigation, what was the nature of his private investigation, and what evidence did this investigation consider?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: The answer given on the previous day in the House was that the Prime Minister had considered this matter, along with Dr Nick Smith, in relation to the Cabinet Manual and the responsibilities of Ministers when it comes to conflicts of interest.
Kevin Hague: Did the Prime Minister’s private investigation ascertain whether his previous Minister, Nick Smith, had intervened in any other ACC claims besides Ms Pullar’s?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: On behalf of the Prime Minister, I cannot answer that question. What I can say is that the matter related to the former Minister’s handling of the case as it related to requirements in the Cabinet Manual. That was the Prime Minister’s primary investigation, and, ultimately, the Minister paid a very high price for the decision that they both agreed on.
Hon Trevor Mallard: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. I think you might have clicked at the point that I did—as the Minister said “On behalf of the Prime Minister,”. I think he might have meant that because he was answering on behalf of the Prime Minister, he could not answer the first part of the question. It is relatively important, because otherwise the Prime Minister is on record as saying that he did not look into, or he did not know about, the other private matters.
Mr SPEAKER: I appreciate the intervention from the member. If the Hon Gerry Brownlee wished to clarify that, he is welcome to do so, but he does not have to.
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: For the sake of clarity, the second part of that question can be answered on the part of the Prime Minister, but I am not in a position to answer on the Prime Minister’s behalf on the first part of it.
Kevin Hague: Did the Prime Minister’s private investigation consider the 45-point list of serious legislation, guideline, and code breaches by ACC raised by Bronwyn Pullar?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: I am not able to answer that question on behalf of the Prime Minister.
Kevin Hague: Did the Prime Minister’s private investigation look into who had leaked Bronwyn Pullar’s name to the media, and whether this leak originated in a Government Minister’s office or from ACC itself?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: I raise a point of order, Mr Speaker. The member keeps referring to the Prime Minister’s private investigation. From the answers that were given relating to the primary question that is here today—answers given to all questions asked by that member in the House on 22 March—I think that is an interesting sort of leap for him to take. But in answer to the question, I am not able to answer that on behalf of the Prime Minister.
Mr SPEAKER: We have a slight difficulty there in that the Minister sought a point of order that was not really a point of order, because the member asked a question, and the Minister has now answered the question in so far as he says he is not able to answer the question. But the member is entitled to ask his questions. He made it clear in his first supplementary question that the Prime Minister had made reference to an investigation in his previous answers, and the member is entitled to ask questions. Whether the Minister can answer them is another matter, of course, while acting on behalf of the Prime Minister. But that was not an appropriate point of order.
Grant Robertson: Has the Prime Minister asked the Minister for ACC, as part of his investigation, who she believes leaked the information about Bronwyn Pullar to the media?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: No.
Kevin Hague: Did the Prime Minister’s private investigation determine when the ACC Chair, John Judge, first learnt about the massive breach of confidentiality that had occurred, the potential involvement of the then Minister, and the very serious claims Miss Pullar was making about failure of good process?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: There are a number of questions inside the member’s question that I think conflate a number of different points along the way in this particular story. What I can confirm is that investigations were made into the propriety of the reference written by Dr Smith. It did not meet the standards that were set and expected, and therefore the Minister has resigned.
Kevin Hague: Given his response to these questions today and the fact that neither the Privacy Commissioner’s inquiry nor the police inquiry can possibly consider any of them, will he not support calls for an independent investigation into these wider matters, or does he have another reason for trying to prevent these matters from being independently investigated?
Hon GERRY BROWNLEE: There is no attempt at all to hide anything in these cases, and I resent the member’s implication that that is what is happening.

2. GRANT ROBERTSON to the Minister for ACC: Does she have confidence in the Board of ACC?



Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for ACC): Yes.
Grant Robertson: When she told the media this morning that only herself, one staff member, chairman John Judge, and the chief executive of the ACC had the information about Bronwyn Pullar, which of these people does she believe leaked that information to the media?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: That is not correct. What I said was that Miss Boag sent the information to me and one staff member in my office. I did not send it to anyone else. My staff member sent it to the chief executive of ACC and the chairman of the board, as I requested her to. It was not sent anywhere else from my office.
Grant Robertson: Given that answer, does she believe that board chair John Judge leaked the information about Bronwyn Pullar?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: I have asked Mr Judge, and he has denied the allegation.
Grant Robertson: Given her statement to the media that she has ruled out herself and her office as the source of the leak, will she rule out board chair John Judge or chief executive Ralph Stewart as the sources?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: This information that was released to the media is information belonging to Miss Pullar and Miss Boag. If either of those people wishes to make a complaint to the Privacy Commissioner, then I would support them in doing that. It is not for me to speculate as to who released it. I am simply saying that I am 100 percent certain that it was neither me nor anyone in my office—100 percent certain; absolutely.
Grant Robertson: Does she accept that by ruling out herself and anyone in her office and saying that the email went only to John Judge and Ralph Stewart, she is implicating both of them in the leak?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: No.

9. ANDREW LITTLE to the Minister for ACC: Which of the investigations now underway in ACC – the Malcolm Crompton-led investigation into privacy issues or the Police investigation into alleged blackmail – will deal with the disclosure of former ACC Minister Nick Smith’s letter regarding Bronwyn Pullar to the media?



Hon JUDITH COLLINS (Minister for ACC): I am not convinced that either investigation is likely to deal with the disclosure of this letter, as Dr Smith released the letter himself to the media following confirmation from Ms Pullar that she was happy for him to do so. However, if the Privacy Commissioner or the police wish to look into this, then that is a matter for them.
Andrew Little: How did a communication from former National Party president Michelle Boag about her involvement in Bronwyn Pullar’s case, and intended only for the Minister, get disclosed to the media, including social media?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: That is a matter that I would like to know the answer to. However, any people who send me information about ACC can expect that I will send it straight to ACC. That is what a Minister does.
Andrew Little: Does she believe that it is appropriate for Ministers or their staff to disclose to the media, including social media, personal information held by departments, agencies, or Crown entities about people who criticise the Government?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: Certainly not.
Andrew Little: What assurance can she give ACC claimants who are finding decisions on their claims frustrating and difficult that their concerns are being taken seriously by ACC, and that they too will not find their details leaked to the media, including social media?
Hon JUDITH COLLINS: I am very concerned about the privacy issues. That is why I asked for a report from ACC—I made sure that that was available for the public to see on the website a few days after the leaked emails—in terms of the information that Ms Pullar had, and she had put out to the Dominion Post. I was very concerned about that. That is why I am very much obliged to the Privacy Commissioner for the work that she is doing to, in fact, lead this inquiry into the privacy issues around ACC. I actually think it is extremely important that this issue be dealt with properly.

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